Curse

Terrokian · Jun 04, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazar Razak

To me atleast. You have lost all credibility on this topic.

The topic is about whether the pics are porn or not and ramifications of each side.State your opinion one way or the other.

Terrokian · Jun 04, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

When people say it's not art simply because of the content and have arguments based on that its "wrong" and "I don't like it" and don't have any other reason other than its against people's morals. I can say that they do not know what they are talking about. I think Pumpkin Pie still doesn't. But since a lot of arguments on the subject matter are based on emotional outrage, much like Terrokian posts. I would agree with Pamelf; even when she tried to get people to see what the exhibitions were trying to express.

Hmmm I do remember stating that a 1 pic was pretty much the same one Miley Cyrus blew a cork on.

The next couple I asked what was the thought behind naked sad girls.

The next one I stated was porn.This one pose is a typical and often used model pose.You see it in certain commercials and pictures.The "general" idea they seem to try and convey is fun,happiness,sexiness,and allurement.I named off different things were I saw models and what not striking that self same pose.Here you got a naked 13 year old girl doing just that.And advertisers try and get the most bang for their buck.So they really research what is and is not effective.Maybe Henson was following their lead.

The final one,with the boy,was 2 kids of the opposite sex engaging in an intimate act(sorry semi nude kissing is intimate don't bother saying it isn't).Now both are 13 and what is the artistic value of this?Wait a sec I know.

http://www.wftv.com/news/16348047/detail.html

Wow.Try reading about this and tell me your comments on what underage art is all about.

You say I'm some blown up,emotional twit,non educated fool,e-rager,who doesn't have a clue about crap.Much less art.

Love that above link.Pretty much explains the whole damned thing.Go love your art.Go defend it.Then go talk to that girl.She is after all artistic.

Turtle222 · Jun 04, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Perhaps its a representation of the loss of innocence, thereby linking the two topics together :\ (i'm speaking about the Bill henson art)

pamelf · Jun 05, 2008, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrokian

http://www.wftv.com/news/16348047/detail.html

Wow.Try reading about this and tell me your comments on what underage art is all about.

Love that above link.Pretty much explains the whole damned thing.Go love your art.Go defend it.Then go talk to that girl.She is after all artistic.

Oh wow...that's totally the same *rolls eyes* I think you summed it up perfectly when you said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrokian

I'm some blown up,emotional twit,non educated fool,e-rager,who doesn't have a clue about crap.Much less art.

On that note, I bow out of this topic. Seriously, is the irony of a guy/girl (not sure of your gender) arguing about the issues we've just been discussing with playboy bunny avatar not lost on anyone else? Playboy as a brand targets 10-16 year old females, and it doesn't take a genius to know what kind of message playboy sends out. Maybe think about that and THEN talk to that myspace ditz since you seem to think that article sums things up.

Things can only go downhill with your 'quality' of argument, so I'm bowing out while there's still a modicum of intelligence left in this thread.

My thanks to all of you who have made this an interesting discussion.

Tatile · Jun 06, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

I have my thanks to extend, to Pamelf, Dreamrunner and the (amusing) Terrokian. I used this thread in my last Philosophy lesson as an example of freedom vs. morality and also partly in the way of that loveable thing, the Harm Principle.

We had a wonderful discussion thanks to Pumpkin having linked the images in question. We did find some of Terrokian's points very... loud however.

DreamRunner · Jun 06, 2008, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Bill Henson's charges got dropped.

Tatile · Jun 06, 2008, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Did he have a good defense? Or was it something else?

DreamRunner · Jun 06, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatile

Did he have a good defense? Or was it something else?

The police said it was 'likely' they would press charges, but they now they said that they won't.

Tatile · Jun 06, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Hmm, interesting. I'd like to know why they changed their minds.

Prosthetic · Jun 06, 2008, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Cate Blanchett stepped in. Seems like she is Australia's new moral advisor or something.

Sleeper Service · Jun 06, 2008, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatile

Did he have a good defense? Or was it something else?

"A spokeswoman for Australia's Classification Board, speaking on condition of anonymity under board policy, said six Henson photos had been referred to them. The board gave five of them a G rating, and one a PG.
(...)
The image "creates a viewing impact that is mild and justified by context ... and is not sexualized to any degree," the board found.
(...)
In a statement the police said they had been advised by the Director of Public Prosecutions that there was "no reasonable prospect of a successful conviction."

"Matters involving the law and art are notoriously difficult and that is why police sought this advice," the statement said, adding that the portraits would be returned to the gallery.
(...)
Rudd said (...) that the matter was for independent bodies to decide.
(...)
"I ... said what my views are as a parent, I don't budge from that,"
(...)
"But I'm not about to go around and start dictating to the legal authorities what they should or should not do."
(...)"

SOURCE
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24997472/

ah politics, always folding.

fear the backlash of the backlash huh.

Lord Sojar · Jun 06, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Sorry, if it was in an art gallery, and done without sexual intent, it was art. The modern US culture is so anti-sex, it is insane. I went to an art gallery with my fiancée a few weeks ago actually, and there were pictures of naked men and women, a picture of of a naked woman holding her naked baby with one breast showing in a sepia tone, and some other very racy gay men kissing in some photographs, totally nude. I didn't look at any of that art as pornographic, and I didn't even find the gay/lesbian art offensive, despite its rather adult subject matter. Art is to be admired based on artistic principle, not on any other level. The artists of the Renaissance would be appalled that we are censor to this type of art just because it is considered taboo in some societies. Our world has become so embarrassed of its own sexuality and nature. Pity...

Tatile · Jun 07, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

I think the problem is, Rahja, along with the whole anit-sex (as a response to the over sexualization of the media) is that the images in question are photographs, not paintings or illustrations. That which is created with pencil, line or brush has less realism than that taken on film and therefore most people feel more disconnected with a painting, but find a photograph to tangible.

Say if the wood carvings from Dante's Divine Comedy - Inferno were made into photographs, I'm sure money people would find the subject matter highly offensive.

There is also the problem that people don't talk, they just yell.

P.S. Finally got my freaking internet connection back. Damn you Orange, damn you to hell.

Winterclaw · Jun 07, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

The modern US culture is so anti-sex, it is insane.

Sometimes it's good to be a little anti-sex. When a conneticut school has to hand out condoms to 11-year-olds because they are having too much pre-teen pregnancy, you know the society is way too oversexual. It doesn't help when 15-year-old teen idols are now getting into the act and posing naked for a magizine.

Tatile · Jun 07, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

It doesn't help when 15-year-old teen idols are now getting into the act and posing naked for a magizine.

Also dating 22 year-old backup dancers doesn't help. I think part of the problem is people are afraid to talk about this subject with their children sometimes (talking about it with the children of others is even worse). Parents have a duty to their children and this does not just lie in shielding them. Protection comes from knowledge, not shutting their eyes to the world.

What's the best way to let a child know teen pregnancy is a bad idea? Let them know the long-term repurcussions, let them know about how the human body and mind develop in relation to sex and sexuality.

The best way to protect children from pedophilia? Similar thing. Let children know there are 'bad people' (perhaps using the tern 'pedophile' may be a bit strong for younger children) and that these people mean harm to children. Let the child know that there are adults they can talk to if they get approached by these bad people.

When a child starts to show they can reason and make informed decsions, then you can start to really talk to them (like how the rootwords of pedophile are at odds with the reality of the act, and the nature of how human sexuality develops). There's no point in trying to reason with a five- year old who only understands the world in black and white, rather than the grey it is.

Blah. Perhaps I shouldn't start to bring my philosophy classes to Guru, the backlash could be... bad.

pumpkin pie · Jun 08, 2008, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Now you made me wander... lol any chance of knowing what yours discussion talked about Tatile?

Tatile · Jun 08, 2008, 07:35 AM // 07:35

My discussion in Philosophy you mean Pumpkin? Easy, we talked about the age at which people (children even) realise they have sexuality, the origins of sexuality (genetic or enviornmental, specifically homosexuality), the attitude of religion and society toward sexuality, sexual experiences at various ages, peer & media pressure in relation to virginity, the Bill Henson display the nature of pornography versuses art, the idea that if people find something eroti should it be banned (naked feet and cars)?

Oh there was probably more but that's all I can remember now. We discuss convtraversial topics such as those surronding sex and drugs (particularly when we're doing Mill's On Liberty or generic political philosophies) because they're easy to talk about in our environment. We love free discussion and opinion, without that we couldn't have philosophy, just dictation

pumpkin pie · Jun 08, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Yes and thank you for the answers.

Tatile · Jun 08, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

No worries Pumpkin, I believe that questions should always be answered

DreamRunner · Oct 05, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...31-953,00.html

http://www.theage.com.au/national/he...tm.html?page=1

Bill Henson speaks about his art. I was watching the news on *shudder* channel 10 and find it amusing that the media loves a person who they can make look like a pedophile.